http://content.karger.com/produktedb/pro...5064004157

this should help you out. Similar to fat loss, long. bone growth is also primarily based on hormonal events.

^

Good link bud. As ive been saying since day 1 of being here, horomones are the entire reason you grow taller. Good nutrition helps, but if you fail to acquire sufficient nutrition, the body has ways of stealing necessary nutrients from already formed tissue (muscle for protein, bone density for calcium to form new bone). Unfortunately most people here will have a hard time understanding much of the words used in the review.

One way to help is to plop any words you dont understand into a medical dictionary. When I first started studying the science of longitudinal growth, I didint know 90% of the words they used. I learned them by looking up eevery single words definition in a medical dictionary, and if I came across the word again and forgot its definition, id re-look it up until I finally did know the word by heart. It seems tedious and it is, but if your desire to understand longitudinal height growth is genuine, you wont have a problem.

Heres a link to the dictionary I had great success with; http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/omd/



If you checkout the endocrine review posted by chenrko's estrogen section you'll see something ive been saying for awhile;

"Indirect evidence suggests that epiphyseal fusion occurs when the proliferative capacity of the growth plate chondrocytes is exhausted [9] and that estrogen acts by advancing growth plate senescence, causing earlier proliferative exhaustion, and thus earlier fusion [9]."

In support of this is as you get older and deeper into puberty, your rate of height growth slows down even though your hormone levels havent necessarily decreased significantly. The reason for this is because the proliferative capacity of the chondrocytes have been depleted and they can no longer proliferate (divide from one cell into two), therefore the more chondrocytes that reach proliferative exhuastion, the less epiphyseal cartilage can form, and thus the less longitudinal height that can occur. As less cartilage forms, the height of the growth plate decreases because the zone of ossification (the part of the growth plate where cartilage is calcified into bone by osteoblasts secreting osteocin) advances faster than the speed of the cartilage formation, crossing the chondrogenesis (cartilage forming) zones of the growth plate and reaching (calcifying) to the otherside of the growth plate (the chondrocyte germative zone). Once the germative zone is calcified, the entire growth plate has fused from one side to the other and become solid bone instead of containing layers of cartilage and cartilage cells stacked in verticle columns (a result of morphogens signaling the orientation of the cells).

Growth plate height is a term used to describe the distance from the germative zone, to the zone of ossification.

This is where my theory with strontium comes in. The studies show strontium slows chondroblast/cyte maturation preventing them from undergoing cellular apoptosis and therefore the result is that the growth plate height increases "enormously".

It may be of use for a cycling system where for X amount of time components are used that accelerate longitudinal height growth, after X amount of time these components are cessated and the individual then consumes strontium to increase growth plate height "enormously" for X amount of time, they then discontinue strontium use and repeat the therapy with components that accelerate longitudinal growth.

I would in no way recommend attempting such a thing, at this point in time, if ever, as theres alot that I need to look into.

In theory, the growth plate height may be decreasing as you use components that accelerate longitudinal growth, by periodicly stopping their use and using a component that increases growth plate height, you basically create a "resevoir" of chondrocytes (visualize a dam, and the strontium being the dam structure itself, and on the otherside of the dam is the zone of ossification, and on the reservoir side of the dam is the chondrocytes that are not fully maturing and thus building up behind the dam). You then discontinue strontium use, and consume components that promote chondrocyte proliferation and hypertrophy. This resevoir of chondrocytes will suddenly 'explode' in size proliferating (dividing) and expanding to 3x their size (hypertrophy) before secreting ECM (extra-cellular matrix) and undergoing apoptosis, dying and becoming completed cartilage matrix, followed by the ossification of that cartilage into bone structure.

damn heightfx at my age i have nothing to lose so i might as well try your theory right?
Like a week on strontium then 3 weeks on your your product?
I got nothing to lose really lol

Except your health, if the potential danger of this theory is realised. Or your money.

Try cycling with a raised seat.

hey heightfx, i am confused as i read everything in your site and the disclaimer said do not use if you are in athletics, so im guessing get tested, will it test for anabolics or hgh?

Potential danger???

Do you have the slightest clue what your talking about?

I didint think so. Theres no danger to increasing your growth plates height, this is what happens when you enter puberty. Ya that puberty... its a killer

Yes you are confused.

Nowhere does it say you shouldnt take it if your an athlete.

What it DOES say is that if your an athlete who COMPETES in certain sports, SOME organizations that regulate certain competetive sports (such as high school sports), have BANS in place on HERBAL SUPPLEMENTS that serve certain purposes.

For example; some college sports, the committee that regulates the sport, has banned the use of ANY supplement that acts as a growth hormone secretagogue. They consider it an unfair advantage (like steroids), except theyre not illegal, but banned by the committee for use by competing athletes.

Therefore IF your an athlete who competes in a sport, before using the product (or any herbal supplement for that matter) you should first check to see if the committee that regulates the sport/league your involved in, has banned the use of growth hormone secretagogue supplements, etc.


They cannot TEST you for these supplements like they can for steroids, as therese simply far too many potential supplements and ingredients. They would have a very hard time proving you ever used one, the only way they can prove it, is if they found the supplement in your gym bag or locker, or you admitted to using such products either to committee personnel or someone who then ratted on you. You would likely get away with doing so unless you started bragging to other athletes or something. But if your responsible, you should first check to see if any class of dietary supplements (again, growth hormone secretagogues come to mind) are banned for use by competing athletes in your sport/league of participating.


It cannot pop positive in a test for anabolics or HGH. The way they test for anabolics are by analyzing the urine for the known metabolites of different ILLEGAL and banned substances such as Methandrostenolone or Oxandrolone.

NONE of the ingredients used are in anyway shape or form structurally related to any hormone or anabolic steroid. They do not have metabolites in anyway shape or form related to any hormone or anabolic steroid. They cannot be tested for, nor would anyone ever try to.

Nothing to worry about in that regards. Just as I stated above, some organizations have banned the use of certain classes of dietary supplements that the organizations believe could give an athlete an unfair advantage, even though the supplements are perfectly legal, readily available, and safe to use. The only way you would be caught for using such a supplement during competition, would be if they found the supplement in your posession or you told someone you take such a supplement and that person then tells the officials.


As well, these supplements are only banned for use by athletes actively competing. If you took the supplement a year before you started competing in the sport and league that has banned such a supplements use by athletes, it isnt violating anything. The bans concern the use of these supplements by athletes who are actively participating in the sport.

I.e. you have a college football game coming up. You begin taking a HGH secretagogue supplement a few days before the game, or you continue taking it even while your playing the game, THEN you are violating the ban and if they find out youve done such a thing, who knows what punishment they will deliver (suspension? banned?).


If your concerned about such a thing, simply contact the committee that oversees the regulations for your sports competing league and ask them for a list of any and all banned substances and classes of supplements. Chances are they have not banned any class of dietary supplement for use by athletes, only banning actual drugs (steroids, recombinant growth hormone, etc.).

HOWEVER I recall reading about some college leagues that HAVE banned the use of growth hormone secretagogue dietary supplements. ITs a pretty broad banning basically meaning any supplement that is sold for the purpose of increasing growth hormone, is banned for use by athletes participating in the league. Its obviously VERY easy to get around since theres no testing for such things and likely most athletes still continue to use such products despite the ban, knowing theres almost no chance theyd be caught.

haha thats hilarious,, but nah i was just asking cus i might pick up football again, i played last year but not this year, and its cool everyone is roided up on the team anyways.

You could lose potential benefits from my product is what im getting at.

Because the strontium works by slowing the amount of longitudinal growth by slowing the amount of cartilage matrix formation and thus osteogenesis (the conversion of that cartilage matrix to new bone), in exchange for increasing the height of the growth plate (the verticle width from the germative layer to the zone of provisional ossification), it may be possible that such use of strontium could reduce the effects of my formulation on acceleration of longitudinal growth. Understand?

Until I investigated the matter fully, I wouldnt advise doing so. Not because of a potential health issue, but rather a potential reduction in results.


IF the theory did pan out and worked, then basically you would be able to delay growth plate fusion through a different mechanism (rather than the current mechanism used which is lowering estrogen).


And no 1 week on strontium and 3 weeks on my product wouldnt work. Certain ingredients in my formulation may take up to 4 weeks of consistent daily usage just to reach their peak effect as serum blood levels need to buildup from daily administration.

My product I recommend be used in 12 week cycles of daily use, followed by 4 weeks of discontinued use, and then repeated until the desired result is achieved.

With such a theory, during the 4 week downtime, you would cycle in strontium to expand the height of the growth plate prior to the next 12 week cycle of my formulation. As in my analogy previously, "building up" a resevoir of chondrocytes/chondroblasts with use of the strontium, then taking my product which would be like opening the flood gates of the "dam".


But again, theres ALOT I need to look into, mainly refreshing my memory and expanding my knowledge with a comprehensive focus on hormonal regulation of epiphyseal chondrocyte maturation and so on, as well as finding all the studies I can regarding strontiums effect on growth plate height, dosages used, durations used, what is defined by "enormous" increase in EGP height, etc.


Additional problems that would need to be figured out would be; how do we know if the cycling in of strontium makes any difference in longituidnal growth? There would be 2 ways to potentially identify such a thing;

A) Identify the amount of growth achieved from the first 12 week cycle of my formulation, then compare that growth to the growth achived from the second 12 week cycle (which follows a 4 week cycling of strontium). If there was a statistically significant difference (increase) in growth between the first and second cycles of my formulation, that could be supporting evidence for the effectiveness. However if there was a significant DECREASE between the first and the second cycle, that would be supporting evidence that the stontrium use somehow negatively impacted the effect of my formulation likely by its interactions on chondrocyte maturation with my formulation being insufficiently capable of reversing the delayed maturation from the preceeding strontium use.

B) Identifying a significant increase in the length of time the user was able to continue experiencing longitudinal growth past an age where EGP fusion would be almost certain. This would be something that would require years of use to identify.

The theory has 2 possible effects, one would be an acceleration in longituidnal growth at the introduction of the second cycle of my formulation proceeding a cycle of strontium. The other would be a delay in growth plate fusion as a result of the increased growth plate height (as fusion is a result of when the growth plate LOSES all its height and thus becomes fully calcified).


As you get older, chondrocyte proliferative capacity is believed to become exhuasted, as a result, the height of the growth plate decreases because less chondrocytes exist and thus less cartilage is formed thus theres a shrinking of the gap between the germative layer (where the process of chondrogenesis and thus endochondral ossification begins), and the zone of provisional ossification (where the process of osteogenesis begins and ends and thus endochondral ossification is completed).

Therefore the greater growth plate height you can achieve, the longer it will take for growth plate fusion to occur. However strontium increases EGP height by reducing the degree of chondrogenesis and thus osteogenesis, and thus decreases the rate of longitudinal height growth in exchange for the increased growth plate height.

My produce increases the rate of longituidnal height growth, and because of its anti-estrogenic effects, also increases growth plate height but to a much more limited extent so I doubt it does it to such a degree as the strontium may, simply because of the different mechanisms of effect for achieving the increase in EGP height between anti-estrogenic actions and slowdown in cartilage cell maturation rate.


If you do start taking my product for a 12 week cycle to first assess the level of growth achieved with its use alone (for later comparison to its use proceeding a strontium cycle), by the time you do reach the 12 week mark where you should discontinue use for 4 weeks, I can likely have a much more comprehensive understanding of the possible interactions with the strontium effect. 3 months of daily research should get me to the level of understanding sufficient enough to make a somewhat educated conclusion on the matter.

No matter how much research I do however, the only way to know for certain is by experimentation, which can be conducted in the short-term by following the protocl I announced in "A" early in this post, by comparing the growth experienced during the first 12 week cycle of my formulation (where strontium use was not conducted prior to the cycle) compared to the growth experienced during the second 12 week cycle (where strontium was used preceeding the use of my formulation), and then comparing the growth differences (if any) between the two cycles.


Its interesting to say the least!

This post was last modified: 11-25-2008 07:45 PM by HeightFX.